**Please note: this transcript was automatically generated. We're working on going back over this to clear up misspellings as we have time ... but as we all know, there is precious little of that**

Travis: Finally getting over this cold that I've been having.

Travis: Like, my voice almost sounds normal again, but fun time.

Other Chris: Good old colds colds man.

Other Chris: Way to go, suck.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah, they do.

Other Chris: I've been feeling horrible, like, this whole week.

Travis: Oh, man.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I think Danielle caught it just as I'm coming out of it.

Chris: Yeah, that's usually how that works.

Chris: I've noticed from, like, Matt and Brittany right when Matt's coming out.

Chris: Then Brittany will get it.

Travis: She's pouring medicinal water into her sinuses as we speak, which is really weird, but it helps.

Travis: Not a netty pot, but, like, the squirt, the nasal rinse in there, and it feels like you're drowning, but it clears you out.

Chris: I do see just in their water break for that effect.

Travis: Yeah, it's a tactical waterboarding.

Chris: Feel better.

Travis: Hello, and welcome back to Rtfb.

Travis: This is Travis, and today, Chris other Chris and I are covering the first section of Kindred by Octavia Butler, which was everything starting with The Prelude and ending with The Fall.

Travis: So there's your spoiler warning if you're reading along.

Travis: And although this episode is already running a bit long, let me remind warn you that this book does contain descriptions of beatings, rape, racism, and other bad things that would have happened on a plantation.

Travis: So please do be prepared.

Travis: Once you're ready, let's jump right back into my discussion with the Chris's already in progress.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Books a million is nice.

Chris: Yeah, they got good stuff there, but it's just like every other bookstore, except sometimes they have a bigger selection of used stuff in them.

Chris: It just depends.

Chris: Depends on the books.

Chris: A million, like the one in the mall, is not going to have as big a much as many of the used ones.

Chris: Like the ones in St.

Chris: Louis have a really good, I think, combination of used books and new.

Chris: You can find a lot of cool stuff at the books.

Chris: A million, just depending on where your location is.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Cool.

Travis: I miss Walden books.

Chris: I liked B.

Chris: Dalton a little better.

Travis: B.

Travis: Dalton was okay, but Walden, they.

Chris: Weren'T as good at the end.

Chris: At the end, Walden books were better.

Travis: Walden Books had the kid entrance that you could go through the secret tunnel to get.

Chris: Oh, my God, I didn't get that.

Travis: S*** was amazing.

Chris: I bet our Walden Books didn't have that.

Chris: The one that I went to because we went to Crestwood a lot, because that was the closest mall to my house, and their Walden Books didn't have that.

Chris: Now that mall doesn't exist.

Chris: It's a pile of dirt.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Got rid of the bookstore and everything else.

Travis: That was their mistake.

Chris: Maybe they're building condos now.

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: That was the plan.

Chris: Now the city of Crestwood has, like, no tax base because it was all based on the mall.

Other Chris: I can't remember if that was the mall that my mom told me about, where the adult section of the bookstore was kind of by the windows of the store.

Other Chris: So anytime you went by, you'd see two or three perverts just like hanging.

Chris: I would not be surprised if that was the case.

Travis: You can have them, but you're going to have to show everyone you're having them.

Chris: Exactly.

Chris: They had the first movie theater that had ten screens in St.

Chris: Louis that was easy to get to.

Chris: They built an AMC.

Chris: Like they had a little one that then was in the food court that became exhilarama.

Chris: And they built the AMC Ten.

Chris: I mean, I think they had some big multiplexes, like way the f*** far out.

Chris: But I didn't go there.

Chris: But I spent a lot of time going to that AMC Ten.

Chris: I kind of miss it.

Chris: And then it became a cheap movie theater when I was a young adult.

Chris: So I used to go like when I lived in South City before I moved to Florida, I would go every Friday if Megan wasn't available.

Chris: And I would get some crappy Chinese food at the food court and then go see like a $5 movie at the movie theater.

Travis: Nice.

Chris: So I saw a bunch of movies.

Chris: There was fun.

Chris: Now it's all gone.

Chris: All my memories are gone.

Chris: Nothing but dust.

Travis: The memories are still there.

Travis: It's just all the places you made them in are gone.

Chris: Exactly.

Chris: Like the breadcoat that was there, I spent a lot of time at.

Other Chris: Well, you can just comfort yourself by knowing that, yes, eventually those memories will be gone too.

Chris: Unfortunately.

Travis: I feel comforted.

Travis: I don't feel very comforted.

Travis: I was also adding to my list of crotchety old man stuff because we finally finished Avatar.

Travis: We have been saving the finale for like a special day.

Travis: And we went popcorn and treated it like a movie.

Travis: So we moved on to Cora.

Chris: Okay, nice.

Travis: I cannot watch shows that you have to listen to words people are saying with my kids because they don't stop talking about other s***.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I'm like, why did they do that?

Travis: What is happening?

Travis: Oh, I don't know.

Travis: Could you shut up then?

Chris: I'm trying to watch this.

Travis: Oh, I know what happened.

Travis: They left.

Travis: And that person is building like robots for this other guy.

Travis: And yeah.

Travis: Who are those characters called?

Travis: I don't know exactly.

Chris: Right.

Travis: I want to know more than just the general plotline of this.

Travis: I want to get what they're saying.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Go, Cora.

Chris: I still to this day have not seen half of that show.

Chris: And I own it.

Chris: Oh, man.

Travis: So far so good.

Chris: I've seen the first two seasons like three times and not the second two.

Chris: So I heard it gets really good after that too.

Chris: My first two seasons were fine.

Chris: Go ahead.

Other Chris: I was going to say I hate children.

Other Chris: We were at a movie the other day and it seems like it seems like the the thing now.

Other Chris: Well, I mean, I guess it's always kind of been like this, but the thing now is like, just drop off your tween kids at the movie theater.

Chris: Yeah, that's what happened when we were that age.

Other Chris: And so I'm like, hey, I don't.

Chris: Go on the weekend.

Other Chris: Cool movie.

Other Chris: That's fun.

Other Chris: And then it's full of all these a****** kids.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: That'S how it was when we saw Avatar.

Travis: That feels like a movie you probably could bring kids to.

Travis: But the kids lost interest about hour two.

Travis: And we're just, like, talking loudly and running around and running up and down the stairs that are behind the seats.

Travis: And the parents were just like, not doing anything.

Chris: That's fun.

Chris: It's like not playing parents parent anymore.

Travis: Yeah, f****** parents.

Chris: Not the parents.

Chris: I know.

Chris: Of course.

Travis: Start hitting your kids more.

Chris: Yeah, exactly.

Chris: Bring the switch back.

Chris: They'll get in line.

Other Chris: Oh, my God.

Travis: Nor at least be like, you can't run around in the movie right now.

Chris: You would think that would occur to them.

Travis: Just don't run around right now.

Other Chris: Remind me that I have something to say about that.

Travis: Okay.

Travis: When am I reminding you that?

Other Chris: Maybe I'll remember since I made a point of it.

Chris: Okay.

Travis: I'm making a note.

Travis: If nothing else.

Travis: I'll ask at the end of the thing.

Other Chris: Very good.

Other Chris: Remind that'll.

Other Chris: Be the appropriate time about stuff.

Travis: Okay.

Chris: Parenting stuff.

Chris: Parenting kids, switches, who knows?

Travis: Yeah, maybe pick a kid, go back to the tree.

Travis: Not so good.

Chris: Well, probably not.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Well, speaking of book, I'm going to ask I'm going to ask Amazon first since it's your first time through.

Travis: How'd you take the book?

Chris: It's pretty good once you get used to the s*** that happens.

Chris: I'm like, well, okay, brutality.

Chris: Yeah, that's how it was in that world.

Chris: But otherwise it's pretty good.

Chris: It's doing like Electric Sheep did for me, where it takes me a little bit to get into the reading just because of my own brain.

Chris: And then once I do, suddenly I've read like 50 pages.

Other Chris: Right?

Travis: Yeah.

Chris: It didn't feel like work or anything.

Chris: It moved really quick.

Chris: It's really good.

Travis: Yeah, absolutely.

Travis: Anything like surprising, aside from the brutality of the time, it did start off.

Chris: Earlier in time than I thought it was going to.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: I thought it would be a little closer to Civil War time, but it's not.

Chris: It's at the beginning of the 19th century.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: So that was a little bit of a surprise.

Chris: Right.

Chris: But not a huge deal on just how the time travel stuff is working.

Chris: That's interesting.

Chris: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Agreed.

Travis: Agreed on that.

Travis: Other chris, are you discovering new stuff this time through?

Other Chris: I'm discovering that my memories about certain things were off.

Other Chris: So that's kind of interesting.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: I actually did not remember I did not remember Alice being free when I read it.

Other Chris: So that's an interesting discovery.

Other Chris: It changes a little bit of my perspective, but yeah, man, the brutality of it.

Other Chris: I think was kind of the point.

Travis: Right.

Other Chris: Like I said a long time ago, I really do think that this should be required reading for high school level or something.

Other Chris: People really should, because I wouldn't call it, like, an unflinching look.

Other Chris: It's not like something that was designed to be like, hey, look at all this horrible, horrible stuff.

Chris: It's so casual in that world.

Other Chris: Exactly.

Chris: Like, just how casual all this violence is to everybody.

Other Chris: And that's exactly how it's written.

Other Chris: And that's the crazy thing about it, is like, oh, yeah, just start a paragraph or whatever.

Other Chris: No preamble, no lead up, just some crazy f****** s*** happens.

Chris: And then life goes on.

Other Chris: This truly f***** up s*** actually happened.

Chris: For a long time.

Travis: And speaking on the casualness of it, they even kind of point out this particular plantation run isn't so bad.

Travis: I heard about it was like, this was miserable all the time, but then the next page, someone's, like, getting beaten basically to death.

Chris: Yes.

Other Chris: But even that wasn't even the point of that whole statement.

Other Chris: Right?

Other Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: I don't know if I want to get too deep into it now, but it's like there is, like, an entire viewpoint in the American South still that there is such a thing as, like, a virtuous slave owner.

Travis: Yeah, right.

Chris: That's from the lies they've been taught by the Daughters of the Confederacy to rehabilitate the Confederate memory.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Like, oh, it was good, and you were Christianizing these savage people and giving them a better life.

Chris: I'm like, no, you terrorized generations of people for centuries to get free labor out of them so the 1% could get rich and the lesser percent could have house servants permanently, not have to pay them and do whatever the f*** they want to do them.

Chris: Like, this is terrible s***, and I agree with you.

Chris: I think this should be this particular book should be, like you said, like a high school level reading.

Chris: But we do a pretty terrible job in this country because we don't want to think about it, and we're actually.

Travis: Trying to do worse yeah.

Chris: Of covering this and not understanding what happened in reality, like how it really was.

Chris: That's why I do tell people this will get added to my list of, like, if you don't want to watch Twelve Years of Slave, then you should read Kindred because you need to understand what happened and what it was like, even in a fictional context, because that's how we like to learn in America now.

Chris: But like we said, just seeing the casualness of all this violence, you need to understand that's how it was.

Chris: Right.

Other Chris: Not even just physical violence, I guess, is kind of the point, too, right?

Travis: I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off.

Other Chris: No, you're fine.

Travis: Well, I was going to say, this is jumping ahead, like you mentioned.

Travis: But even in that conversation, the guy's like I mean, it's not that bad.

Travis: It's like, yeah, for you.

Travis: Well, you're not constantly in fear of this happening.

Travis: This can break out at any time.

Travis: So even if you're not constantly getting, like, whippings or whatever, even seeing the one is enough to make you terrified at all times.

Chris: Right.

Travis: If any situation can explode into violence like that, that's a traumatizing and constant stress.

Chris: But that's the thing I didn't really understand until I learned more.

Chris: And I'm like, yeah, this is terrible that we forced a whole group of people to live in constant fear for multiple generations.

Travis: Right?

Chris: And then some aspects of that changed after the Civil War, but not by much.

Chris: And we did it for another hundred years.

Chris: It's no wonder s***'s a little f***** up right now.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: We've got people who are alive who experienced Jim Crow, which was slavery light, essentially, in some ways, but not in others.

Chris: And still people being terrorized, for the most part if they ventured out of their neighborhood, they were forced to be in.

Chris: So it's like, what the f***?

Chris: Come on.

Travis: And it's not the kind of thing you're like, okay, we're sorry, and you're like, all right, yeah, we're all better now.

Chris: It's going to take some so it's fine.

Chris: Honest, hard looking, and working to really rectify this and help people actually be fully American if they want, and people don't like it.

Chris: But we do kind of have to make up for what happened here.

Travis: Right.

Chris: And that's the great debate.

Chris: But I'm like, should it be how hard is it, right?

Chris: Should we not just pour money into neighborhoods and schools and better opportunities for people?

Chris: I think that would be kind of fair.

Travis: I think we need to give it to people who can already fend for themselves.

Travis: The richest of us need all the tax breaks, if you think about it.

Chris: No.

Travis: The thing I was impressed with is, like, you were saying that the narrative style is very economical and it moves right along and enough so that I'm like, oh, even knowing that there's time travel involved with this kind of is a minor spoiler for what's going on.

Travis: But I like the way she kind of just uncovered whatever we needed in the same way someone who was trapped in that kind of a situation might.

Chris: Yeah, right.

Travis: She's like, Well, I was just outside with some weird looking lady, and then I was somewhere else, and I didn't realize, but I'm actually across the country in Maryland and actually 100 years ago.

Travis: And the way she just reveals stuff about the characters when we need to know it.

Travis: I don't remember her telling us that her husband was white until towards the end of section when he was impacted by it, too.

Chris: Right.

Other Chris: You find out when they talk about how they met.

Travis: Yeah, right.

Travis: Which was hurts the back half of the reading.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: That kind of writing style is really what's the word I'm looking for not addicting, but it pulls you in and keeps you moving right along.

Other Chris: Engrossing.

Travis: Yeah, engrossing.

Travis: And like, again, this was on this was a shorter section, but I read it in, like, an evening.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Once I got going, I couldn't put it down.

Travis: Yeah, exactly.

Travis: And I'll probably finish it tonight.

Chris: But.

Travis: Yeah, because of her style, it was hard to write a lot of notes about it without just copying everything she said.

Travis: If we want to turn to some specifics, I will do my best to summarize this stuff, but like I said, I feel you almost just read it aloud in the same amount of time.

Travis: So anyway, some book specifics.

Travis: So I liked the prologue a lot because it opens up saying I lost an arm on my last trip home.

Chris: Right.

Travis: That'll hook you and apparently the way she did it, well, I'm skipping ahead already, even in the prologue.

Travis: But even that I'm like, what the f***?

Chris: Yeah, that's how we're starting.

Chris: Wow.

Travis: So, yes, Dana is in hospital in a drug fog as she's being treated for her lost arm and everyone's asking who hurt her.

Travis: It's like, hurt me.

Travis: But cops are asking if a Kevin did it.

Travis: She tells them it's her fault and was an accident and he's, I guess, let out of jail or like a holding tank.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Eventually when she convinces them it's not his fault and he recounts finding her, like, elbow deep in a wall.

Travis: Again, if I didn't know she was a time traveler here, I'd be like, that's really weird.

Travis: But yeah, apparently you can time travel into places where matter already is.

Chris: Yes, apparently.

Travis: And that's a bad deal.

Other Chris: It is a bad deal.

Chris: You talk about that in Valerian, about having to develop the tech.

Chris: Not to do that.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: You have to materialize both where the earth is in time and space and not in a wall, if you can help it.

Travis: Right.

Travis: So they jump right into the river.

Travis: It is June 9, 1976, and it's Dana's 26th birthday.

Travis: Says it's the day she met Rufus, the day he called me there first.

Travis: Although she mentions that the trouble has been going on already, and I still don't really know what that means yet.

Chris: But I assume no idea.

Travis: I assume we'll find out.

Travis: But Dana and Kevin are like, mid unpack.

Travis: They just moved into a new place and are stacking books into shelves while Kevin is dealing with writer's block.

Travis: And then all of a sudden, she's just dizzy and collapse.

Travis: And while Kevin's asking what happened, she's suddenly outside by a river.

Travis: And in the middle of the river is a small redheaded kid who is, like, drowning.

Travis: So she doesn't really think, she just dives in and grabs him, pulling him back to shore, where the kid's mom, or at least a woman, is screaming and crying.

Travis: She's like, well, I have never done CPR before.

Travis: In fact, she didn't even call it CPR yet, but she gives it a shot.

Travis: She's like, I've seen it done, I guess, is what you do, lady's, like, beating her on the back, crying that she killed her baby.

Travis: Like, lady, he's still alive, I think.

Chris: Plus, your kid fell in the water.

Travis: So that's what killed me.

Travis: And in fact, he does sputter and starts breathing on his own.

Travis: He's like, oh, he's alive.

Travis: Rufus, baby.

Travis: And I like, that.

Travis: She's like, Rufus, ugly name to inflict on a reasonably nice looking kid.

Chris: Definitely not popular these days.

Travis: No.

Travis: And then there's a man who's pointing a very long rifle in her face and asking him, what the f and then she's back in her living room, several feet away from where she had been, comes like, dude, how did you just do that?

Travis: They talk it out.

Travis: Like she's telling him about saving the boy and him confirming that she was just gone for, like, a few seconds, but it felt like a few minutes.

Travis: But neither are too convinced of exactly what happened.

Travis: But she's like, immediately like, what if this happens again?

Travis: And yeah, reading this now, I feel like this is like the A theme in the book.

Travis: Here's a weird, traumatic thing that happened, and what if it happens again?

Travis: Because for the rest of the book, she doesn't want to do anything, right?

Travis: Yeah, I don't want to go anywhere.

Travis: I don't want to go to dinner.

Travis: I don't want to go to the library just in case anyway comes like, well, if it happens again, that guy's going to remember you saved his kid.

Travis: He won't hurt you.

Travis: Ominous.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Don't know.

Chris: Don't know about that one.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So that's the whole chapter.

Travis: Nice, short, and sweet, and like I said, to the point, an economical so the fire, Dana is like, showering and putting on clean clothes, but even though Kevin's like, let's go out for your birthday dinner, she's like, no, I'm not going to be in the middle of a restaurant and disappear.

Travis: That's not going to happen.

Travis: In fact, when their takeout arrives and they sit down to eat, she's dizzy again, and she disappears again not even a couple of hours later.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: She gets no rest.

Other Chris: No.

Travis: So she's suddenly in a dark bedroom, and a boy with his back to her is holding, like, a still smoking stick, and his drapes are on fire.

Other Chris: Oops.

Travis: So again, she has to jump into action, like, pulls the drapes down and throws them out the window, which she later realizes the second story.

Travis: That could have gone poorly.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Also, after she'd done it and realized there was a fireplace, she's like, oh, okay, I could have just thrown them in there, but everyone's safe.

Travis: And she's like, okay, I'm ready to quantum leap back home, save this boy again.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And then she doesn't.

Travis: So she decides she needs to get some answers and that the boy is probably more likely to talk to her than an adult who would probably just shoot her for breaking in.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Which, to be fair yeah, fair.

Chris: That's what they would have done.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I liked her a lot.

Travis: She's like, someone ought to have used that stick on you sometimes.

Travis: What are you doing?

Other Chris: There's a lot of her voice.

Other Chris: Octavia Putler's voice in this character.

Other Chris: She was exactly that kind of person.

Chris: Yes.

Travis: I like it when they're in discussion.

Travis: He tells her his name is Rufus, and she realizes that it is that same kid, but, like, four years older now.

Travis: And she asked him if he remembers a time when he almost drowned, and he does, and he remembers her, and he remembers what happened afterward.

Travis: He was like, I had seen you in a room with more books than my dad has, but I thought you were a man because you were wearing pants.

Chris: Yes.

Chris: A recurring theme.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Which I guess so I would think, like, there's other signs that she's maybe a woman, but I don't know if you're used to only women wearing dresses.

Chris: Yeah, women don't wear pants in 18 whatever teens, like, ever.

Chris: It's forbidden or something.

Other Chris: It's just not done.

Travis: Yeah, right.

Travis: It's grotesque and, like, profane, apparently, to them.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: It's too erotic or something, but yeah.

Travis: Neither of them seem to know exactly how she got there, and she's not too keen to let him think that he can control it.

Chris: Right.

Travis: Like, I would like him to stop bothering me, but he talks about how later his mom said she was probably a ghost because she had seen her disappear also, but she's like, at the time, you were just a strange N word she had never seen.

Travis: And I will be sticking with N word despite yes.

Chris: Thank you.

Chris: Thank you.

Other Chris: This isn't that kind of podcast.

Travis: No.

Chris: Right.

Chris: No, we don't go there.

Chris: That's.

Other Chris: My God.

Travis: No, I do not have a pass.

Travis: So yeah, some strange person she'd never seen.

Travis: But then she remembered her Bible, like, when Elisha breathed life into a dead boy.

Travis: And again, she called me.

Travis: What?

Travis: And after I saved her kid.

Chris: Right.

Chris: The roof is like, Why wouldn't she call you that?

Travis: Right?

Chris: That's what you are.

Travis: I don't know if this is intentional or not, but in that passage, it was like, I love the conjunction of Bible learning and hysteria and casual racism.

Travis: That sounds like the south to me.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: The real Holy Trinity.

Chris: Especially that version of the south.

Travis: Right.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: There's plenty of people down here who do try not to do that, but it does still happen.

Chris: Outsiders got to move in and help them out.

Chris: I'm just sorry that's not true.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So, yes, she takes offense to being called that, of course, like you do.

Chris: I would be offended if I heard that.

Travis: Does she always call black people that?

Travis: And he's like, well, not when company's over.

Chris: What difference does it make?

Travis: She's like, yeah, show me some respect and don't culture.

Travis: He's like, okay.

Travis: Rufus tells her about how he had burnt down the stables once when his dad wouldn't give him a horse.

Other Chris: Seems reasonable.

Chris: Sounds reasonable for a rich kid.

Travis: Yeah, rich kid syndrome.

Travis: He's got affluence already.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And how he had set this fire because he had been accused of stealing from his dad even though it was only a dollar.

Chris: Well, I like how he denied it at first, then he was like, It's only a dollar.

Chris: Like, kid, in your time, a dollar is like, $100.

Chris: Come on.

Travis: Yeah, and I like how he's like, I'm willing to have him lose everything he owns over this.

Travis: Just the accusation is enough for it.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So he was talking about how his dad would probably beat him with the whip if they found out about this, like with the horses and the N words.

Travis: And she's like, excuse me.

Travis: Well, I wasn't talking about you.

Travis: I was talking about the other people.

Travis: Just say blacks.

Travis: Anyway, kid.

Chris: Right.

Travis: Come on.

Travis: I like her thinking how this boy would be lucky to stay out of prison when he grew up, if he.

Chris: Grew up to death one day or.

Other Chris: He just doesn't have some fatal accident.

Travis: Yeah, true.

Travis: He is accident prone.

Travis: Incredibly so, as we continue to see.

Chris: Deadly situations a lot.

Travis: Yeah, and to comment on it later.

Travis: But like, any injury is a deadly situation in the 18 hundreds.

Chris: It is, yeah.

Chris: If it's serious enough.

Chris: You're going to have serious problems if you survive.

Travis: Right.

Travis: He talks about how his mom got mad at his dad the last time, saying beating the slaves was okay, but not him.

Travis: So she took him to Baltimore City for a while and she's like, oh, wait, Baltimore in Maryland?

Travis: Is that far?

Travis: He's like, It's across the bay.

Travis: Just like, wait, what year is this?

Travis: He's like, what the h***?

Travis: Come on, kid, you know the year.

Travis: He's like it's 1815.

Travis: It's like, Ah, well, that explains the hard R.

Chris: DC just got burned.

Travis: Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Other Chris: Just makes me think of like like, man, it would be really fun sometime to just run into a room and be like, quick, what year is it?

Travis: The year, boy.

Chris: Then go.

Other Chris: Great Scott.

Travis: Would you play it off, though?

Travis: Like, whatever they say, would you be like, oh, God, okay, two more years, and then leave?

Chris: Right?

Other Chris: Then I'm not too bad.

Chris: This will be fine.

Other Chris: Things can still change.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Listen, don't get on your next flight.

Travis: Run away.

Chris: Don'T do it.

Travis: I can't say more.

Chris: Bye.

Other Chris: Oh, my God.

Other Chris: How bad would you feel if they got on a different flight than it?

Chris: Oh, God, no.

Travis: You think I would do that follow up research?

Travis: I would not.

Travis: I would just walk away satisfied with my gag.

Chris: That's true.

Travis: Anyway, she's like, so this is a plantation, right?

Travis: He's like, yeah, it's whalen plantation.

Travis: And she's like, oh, hey, just by the way, is there a black girl named Alice living here?

Travis: She's like, oh, yeah, Alice Greenwood.

Travis: And Dana casts her memory back to a very old Bible that her uncle has, her grandmother Hagar Whelan's Bible, which is I've only ever heard of Hagar the Horrible.

Travis: Just as an aside, like Hagar girls.

Chris: Because you don't know your Bible, sir.

Chris: Hagar, in the Hebrew pronunciation, yes.

Chris: She was Sarah's maid servant.

Travis: There's a Sarah on this plane, slave.

Chris: And when they were trying to have kids and couldn't have a kid for a while, her and Abraham, she gave Hagar to Abraham, and they had a kid, and that's where Ishmael came from.

Chris: And then after the angels visited Abraham and told him that they're going to have a kid, and she laughs because she's listening in.

Chris: That's why Yitzhak is named Yitzhak, because that's like I laughed or something like that in Hebrew.

Chris: Then Sarah got really jealous of Abraham's firstborn son, who is not her kid biologically, and stirs some s*** and demands that Abraham kick out Hagar and Ishmael, which he did to save peace at home, but was very concerned about it and talked to God about it.

Chris: And God's like, don't worry, I'm going to provide for them.

Chris: I'm going to make a nation out of Ishmael, too.

Chris: So they get sent out into the desert, and Hagar gets really upset because they don't have any water.

Chris: And she's like, we're going to die.

Chris: And she sits down under a tree and starts crying because she can't give water to her kid, who's like, pretty little he's like, 13 at this point.

Chris: And angel comes and saves them, brings them some water, shows them where there's a well, sends them on their way, and that's where Ishmael settles and all that.

Chris: And this is supposedly in Arabia today because that's how we tie in with now, the ancient peoples didn't know this at the time.

Chris: That's where that's where the Arabs come from.

Chris: All those people south of us, they're Ishmael's descendants.

Chris: And then that's how today the Muslims trace their religious lineage to Abraham.

Chris: I got you it's through Ishmael.

Chris: And then they changed up the Aka story and said, no, no, it was Ishmael that would try to be sacrificed on the mountain, not Isaac.

Travis: But maybe there were two sacrifices on a mountain.

Chris: Two attempts, two testings.

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: Really, the story like, everyone's like, oh, my God, that's okay.

Travis: Why would he do that?

Chris: Because Abraham isn't really thinking, god's really going to take my kid.

Chris: Like, I'm just being told to do this.

Chris: I'm just going to put my trust that good will happen out of it.

Travis: And it's like you're reading part of that.

Chris: That's not what the rabbis say.

Chris: Dude, we have thousands of years worth of stuff that's not in the text.

Chris: Thousands, thousands of years of stories.

Chris: It's how we flesh out the details and understand.

Chris: The meaning.

Chris: Christians don't know how to do this properly.

Other Chris: Not most of them anyway.

Chris: Yeah, not most of them.

Chris: It's not a literal, like, details were left out.

Chris: We have a long tradition of what those details are.

Travis: We have the Abridged version.

Chris: We do, yeah.

Chris: And we got eventually decided that at Mount Sinai, especially if you're Orthodox, where the Torah was given to Moses when he was up on the mountain for 40 days talking with God, you got a written book and you got a whole collection of other stuff, too, to pass down as orals tales.

Chris: And that's how that was done until they were written down after the temple was destroyed in the centuries after that.

Chris: So we have a long tradition of these stories and flesh out details and things like that.

Chris: Yeah, that's where Hagar comes from.

Chris: From the bibble.

Travis: The Bibble.

Travis: And now, literally, literally, her name is in the Bible, and it is in this Bible that has her family tree on it.

Chris: And she is one of the few named women in the Bible.

Chris: There's not a lot a lot more dudes.

Travis: Well, since there is a Sarah on this plantation and I guess eventually there will be a Haggar involved, I feel like you just spoiled all of the rest of the book.

Travis: Yeah, you inadvertently spoiled the rest.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: I doubt it, but yeah, very popular names then.

Chris: I don't know how popular Hagar was across all the different spectrums of people in America, but it's not an uncommon name.

Chris: At least I think, for slaves and stuff back in the day and then people going forward.

Travis: Not for cartoon, I can't say.

Chris: Right.

Chris: But gets passed down.

Travis: Okay, well, so apparently then that makes Rufus her great grandfather.

Travis: Right.

Chris: Or further, he might be further back in line, but just her great grandmother had that Bible, but I don't know.

Chris: I can't remember it might make him her great or her great great.

Travis: Yeah, something like that.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I forget.

Chris: Because she's closer in time to them than we are, but yeah.

Travis: She'S like, okay, well, there's my ancestor, and I don't remember anyone ever mentioning he was white before.

Chris: Yeah, well, you wouldn't necessarily, would you?

Chris: Yeah, later on in time you'd be like, hey, he was a white dude, the son of a plantation owner.

Chris: You just be like, that rufus just the name.

Chris: That's all we need.

Travis: Good old Rufus.

Travis: A terrible name for a handsome guy.

Chris: At least it's not Royce, IFIs it's true.

Travis: Could always be worse.

Chris: Could indeed.

Travis: So, yeah, she wonders if that's why she can call to him is the blood relation.

Travis: And then she considers the time paradox implications of if she hadn't saved him before, or did I always save him, or would I even be alive if I hadn't?

Chris: Good old time travel.

Travis: Feels like she's subscribing to the one timeline theory.

Chris: I tend to think she had already.

Travis: Already done that, even though correct because she exists.

Chris: So it's already happened.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: She does then decide she needs to get the h*** out of there before someone discovers her.

Travis: So she asks where she can go.

Travis: He's like, well, you can hide outside until morning and then ask dad for work.

Travis: He hires free people.

Travis: She's like, yeah, if you were me, would you want to work here?

Chris: Probably not.

Travis: Fair point.

Travis: My dad's kind of an a**.

Chris: But.

Travis: He tells her that Alice's mom has a house nearby and he helps her sneak out.

Travis: But they make sure to find the remains of the drapes.

Travis: Tells them to burn them and only them.

Chris: Right.

Travis: To get rid of the evidence in his fireplace.

Travis: Hide that s***.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Can your mom make some replacement drapes really quick in the morning, by the way?

Chris: Sure, I think so.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: He points her in the general direction of the house and she does her best to stumble through the pitch dark.

Travis: Except for a half moon forest without like, Apple maps, nothing.

Chris: You got to wait for your eyesight to adjust so you can see things.

Travis: That is hard to do, by the way, going through dark woods to a place you've never been.

Chris: Yeah, it is.

Chris: You really do.

Chris: Especially us moderns.

Chris: We do have to sit for a while and adjust.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Like you're not going to make it through otherwise.

Chris: You're going to break your leg tripping in a hole or something.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And like a house that probably doesn't have lights on in the middle of.

Chris: The night in the woods like she mentioned, too.

Chris: Just all the amount of stars and stuff that are out in the sky because we don't get to see that anymore.

Travis: I can't even imagine what it would look like without all that light pollution.

Chris: One of these days we'll have to go on a trip.

Chris: I think we have.

Chris: Part of one of the national parks is Dark Sky.

Chris: A dark sky park.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: There's a place not too far from here that I want to go to.

Chris: That'd be cool.

Travis: When we go to Broken Bow, sometimes you're far enough away.

Travis: It's not true, dark sky, but it's enough.

Travis: You can kind of see the Milky Way.

Chris: Nice.

Chris: That's cool.

Chris: I've never seen the Milky Way.

Travis: I pointed out to my kids and like, god d*** it.

Chris: Like, kids, you're not going to be able to do this when you're our age, let alone when you're old.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Like let's think about it.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: When the planet becomes an acumenopolis and then everything is going to space to.

Travis: See stars out on the ocean, right?

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: You probably could go out in the middle of the Pacific.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: Now that'll be a city, too.

Chris: Yeah, you're right.

Chris: That's true.

Other Chris: We'll start building a city on top of that garbage pile.

Travis: Manhattan or something.

Chris: I think they've shrunk it a little bit, but yeah, I think it's about that size still.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Good old humans.

Travis: Always making things better.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So she does stumble around in the forest for a while before she just gives up and goes back to the road and is almost run over by a group of riders.

Travis: Because she's not very quick on the uptake about what horses sound like.

Chris: Yeah, I wouldn't be.

Travis: Not a sound you're used to hearing in the middle of the night, I guess.

Chris: No.

Chris: And it's dark, so you don't see them till they're right up on you.

Chris: Horses don't glow, folks.

Travis: They don't have headlights.

Chris: They do not.

Travis: So, yeah.

Travis: She manages to hide from them while they go past, but decides to follow eight white guys on the horse that she really hopes aren't going to the house of black people.

Travis: Like, that's not going to end well.

Other Chris: No.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: No.

Other Chris: Spoiler alert.

Travis: Spoiler alert.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Sort of foreshadowing, but again, it's like the next paragraph.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So, yeah.

Travis: She follows them watching from the trees, but she's hidden, but very close.

Travis: Watches as they go to the house.

Travis: Some of the men break down the door and drag a naked black man and a woman in a blanket and a young girl out front.

Travis: She overhears something about the man not having a pass, and then they tie him to a tree and they whip.

Other Chris: Him.

Travis: Just like that.

Chris: It's like f****** h***.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: And again, because of the economy of words, it's just to the point there is not a lot of preamble to this.

Other Chris: It's just like, all of a sudden he's tied to a tree and they're f****** beating him.

Travis: Well, yeah, because that's just what you do.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: You're just allowed to you don't have to work up to it.

Travis: That's what happens.

Chris: That's the stuff that makes me want to if time travel could happen to go mow down people with modern weaponry, like, oh, you think this is fun?

Chris: Bullet to the head, you dead, or no fun now.

Chris: No.

Chris: I'm going to make you suffer bullets through both your knees.

Travis: Jesus.

Chris: Then we'll think about that.

Chris: I'm going to tie you to the tree and see how you like it.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Oh, my God.

Chris: Slytherin guys.

Chris: I get very eventual streaks.

Other Chris: Is there a black exploitation movie where this happens?

Other Chris: Because I feel like so this is a very cool time travel Django Unchained kind of thing.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Anti roots or something.

Chris: Like, I would love to watch that.

Travis: You could make it.

Other Chris: Revenge.

Chris: You could make it.

Chris: Too much work.

Travis: That's true.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Sorry.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Well, I wanted to find someone and egg them on and be like, you can do it.

Travis: Encourage you to do it.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: If you ever listen to us, you should make it.

Chris: That seems like a good project for you.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Tweet Spike Lee.

Chris: Hey, make this movie for us.

Travis: Or Quentin Tarantino.

Chris: He would get involved, I'm sure, but both of them together.

Chris: How about both of them?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: You could make the argument that is his black exploitation film about it, like, shamed.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Take a modern approach to this.

Travis: But anyway, I did want to read this section because I thought it was like a kind of central theme here.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So the beating has just happened.

Travis: And she says, I had seen people beaten on television and in the movies.

Travis: I had seen the two red blood substitutes streaked across their backs and heard their well rehearsed screams, but I hadn't lain nearby and smelled their sweat or heard them pleading and praying shame before their families and themselves.

Travis: I was probably less prepared for the reality than the child crying not far from me.

Travis: In fact, she and I were reacting very much alike.

Travis: My face, too, was wet with tears seems to be the central point.

Travis: You can hear about it.

Travis: You can even see people reenact it, but you aren't really prepared for it's.

Chris: Not the same.

Travis: What it's like to see someone, like, beaten that savagely?

Chris: I can't really fathom that I don't ever want to have to see.

Other Chris: Yeah, exactly.

Chris: Anything even remotely close to that.

Travis: You don't even have to go as far as someone getting dragged out of their house at night and almost killed.

Travis: Even, like a domestic violence situation is like you could see it on TV or even joke about it all in the family or whatever.

Travis: But if you're in that situation, it's, like, suddenly very terrifying.

Chris: Exactly.

Travis: So yeah.

Travis: Not cool.

Other Chris: No.

Travis: So after the beating, that man is tied to the horse and the men right away just kind of leaving.

Travis: Sorry.

Travis: One guy hangs back with the woman and after some whispered conversations, just punches her in the face, and then she just leaves.

Travis: All right, bye.

Travis: She's, like, once again put into rescue mode and decide she has to help.

Travis: Comes out but startles.

Travis: The child calls after her, Alice, and confirms that these are her ancestors.

Travis: When the girl stops, she tells Alice to go get some water, and they revive her mom, who again assumes that Dana is a runaway based on her clothes, but lets her come in and stay the night with them anyway.

Travis: It tells her that she's from not La.

Travis: Since California wasn't a state yet.

Chris: It's Spanish Colony still.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: She's like New York and goes with the story that she'd been snatched and carried away from her husband who was still there.

Travis: Which, I mean, isn't untrue.

Chris: It did happen.

Chris: Like, they talk about at some point around there too, about the passes, and that was the only thing that kept free black people from just being kidnapped and sold into slavery.

Chris: There was like, yeah, it's like, prove it.

Chris: You have to prove that you're free.

Chris: Otherwise the assumption is you're a slave.

Travis: Yeah, well, I don't think that was something that was something I was aware of, but essentially just like a hall pass, some written down.

Travis: This guy is allowed to be over here tonight.

Chris: Right.

Chris: And I think you could get like especially further north if you came from there.

Chris: You got some official paper from the state that said you were born free and that your family was free type of deal.

Chris: And you had to have that with you all the f****** time.

Other Chris: Yes.

Chris: Especially if you had to go down south for any reason.

Travis: Right.

Chris: Which from my understanding was generally not encouraged unless you absolutely had to for business.

Travis: It's still not encouraged.

Travis: Like, don't come here.

Chris: Hey, Atlanta is pretty nice these days.

Travis: Stay the weekend and then get out.

Chris: Maybe not.

Chris: Maybe it was not the best town to go to, like in the 50s.

Travis: But yeah, it also has weird overpasses, by the way.

Travis: I couldn't get out of there driving through.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So yeah, I guess if all you need to do to be wherever you want to be at night is have a note from somebody, then yeah, it makes sense.

Travis: I think they talk about that.

Travis: That's why they wouldn't want the slaves to be able to read or write.

Chris: So they could write them.

Travis: That's easy to forge.

Other Chris: Especially when they make the point that the people writing the note aren't necessarily all that bright.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Or that literate themselves.

Chris: Which is not something I thought of because I always kind of assumed, like, all plantation owners would be very well written and read like Thomas Jefferson or something because they're rich.

Other Chris: Well, apparently not.

Other Chris: I mean, it seems like she had the same preconceived notion because she made a comment on it when she first arrived about how this place is kind of like not as nice as I would have expected.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Later when she goes to the house and it's just like a one story.

Chris: Or whatever, a brick house.

Chris: It's a two story brick, two story brick georgian number or something.

Chris: Not a big opulent, doesn't have the.

Other Chris: Pillars, just a square box.

Chris: Yeah, but I guess that's the difference too, between maybe early Maryland plantation architecture and later plantation styles in the south or the deep south.

Travis: Let's see.

Travis: They're chatting for a little bit and Alice's mom remembers that she left her blanket out wear well outside.

Travis: So Dana goes to go get it for her and is grabbed by some guy that some guy returns who had whispered to Alex's alex's?

Travis: Alice's mom.

Travis: He's like, Wait a minute, you're not her are you her sister or something?

Travis: And she decides probably best just to not say things.

Other Chris: Right.

Travis: In this case, he's like, anyway, you'll do.

Travis: And then he attacks her again.

Travis: Not afraid to just straight up punch her in the face.

Chris: Try to rape somebody.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: There's like a moment in here where Dana has her hands on his face and realizes all she would have to do is scratch his eyeballs to be able to get away and probably kill him.

Travis: Like he'd probably die from infection or being blind, not be able to work and die that way, but just can't bring herself to do it because of modern squeamishness.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: That's one thing that they try to tell you in self defense classes or in martial arts classes.

Other Chris: If you're in a situation like this, don't hesitate.

Other Chris: Keep in mind that you don't want this to escalate further.

Other Chris: Like, you want to get away as soon as possible.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: Get over it.

Chris: Yes.

Travis: That person has already broke decorum by attacking you like that.

Travis: So you do not have to be nice anymore.

Other Chris: Exactly right.

Travis: You don't have to think about it.

Travis: Well, that's dirty.

Chris: If you want to be nice, just take one eye.

Chris: They'll stop.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Extreme of forces you can muster to shut it down right then.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So he proceeds to rip her blouse, and she realizes what exactly he's intending to do.

Travis: So she scrambles hard again and finds a large branch by hitting her head on it, grabs it and knocks him out, but finds herself losing consciousness, but must get away because if the man comes to, he'll probably kill her.

Travis: But can't hold on to it, nor the tree, and wakes up in a panic before realizing she's back at home with Kevin again.

Travis: He's got many questions, but she's very tired and doesn't want to talk about it that night.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And she awakes, washed and in, like, wilderness survival clothes with a canvas bag and a switchblade by her side.

Travis: Kevin tells her she was gone, like, a few minutes in his time, but hours for her.

Travis: So she's pretty much like, yeah, this is not just a weird hallucination.

Travis: Something going on.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So she tells them everything that happens, and yeah.

Travis: This is where they get into a little more about passes like you were talking about, and patrollers, which she talks about being, like, precursors to the KKK, like, just guys who rode around at night is everyone where they're supposed to be or getting bored and just causing chaos anyway.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Kevin's not exactly convinced that she's, like, spacetime jumping, but has no other choice but to act like he believes her.

Travis: So they kind of go over plans, like, okay, if you call back again, let's practice with your switchblade, like, go get this ruler and show me what you're going to do.

Travis: And they tear pages of Maryland out of the atlas.

Travis: Roads aren't there yet.

Travis: This is probably the easiest way through, just in case you need it.

Travis: And I'm pretty sure we can figure out how to forge papers of a free person.

Travis: So we're going to go to the library tomorrow.

Travis: So they begin to theorize that her fear is what's sending her back home.

Travis: So when she's absolutely terrified and fearful for her life, she gets to leave is their theory.

Travis: And I guess when Rufus is terrified, that's when he gets to call her back.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So the fall.

Travis: So there's an interlude that I really liked talking about when Dana had met Kevin and seems probably cribbed from Octavia's real life.

Travis: Probably talking about being a part time author and taking spare jobs where she could and then taking caffeine pills to stay up late.

Chris: Right.

Other Chris: I want to throw out there something that struck me while I was reading that the beginning of this section was like, how people nowadays are talking about gig work in the gig economy.

Other Chris: And it's like this is a thing that has kind of always existed.

Travis: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Just used to pay better.

Chris: Exactly.

Other Chris: At least minimum wage.

Other Chris: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: But yeah, I thought that was really interesting.

Other Chris: That basically the same exact types of people are doing the same exact types of work now.

Travis: Right.

Other Chris: Very strange that it hasn't moved at all in the last, like, 50 years.

Chris: I think that's by plot and design.

Other Chris: Yeah, I think you're right.

Chris: It was supposed to have moved and then forces aligned against actually fixing that kind of stuff.

Travis: Well, like, the minimum wage was supposed to have raised since then, too.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: And it did slow enough to look like it raised, but when you adjust, it great lies we've been told for a long time.

Travis: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I also thought that part was interesting, talking about the casual labor they were doing, which basically seemed like day labor stuff you would see now.

Travis: Like people hanging out outside at Home Depot.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Drive by.

Travis: It's like, who can drive while you're with me?

Chris: Right.

Travis: Who can help me take an inventory?

Chris: Come on.

Chris: Right?

Chris: And we forget, too.

Chris: There was a lot of economic tumult in the 70s.

Other Chris: Yes, true.

Chris: Because we were born after that and didn't have to deal with it.

Chris: But people who went through it.

Chris: We don't see it as much in our shows and movies anymore, but some stuff hints at it, like how up and down it was for folks and why that's how Jimmy Carter got into office and then how he got kicked out and Reagan was brought in because he just failed to do in their pick of mine.

Chris: Failed to do anything about it.

Chris: But presidents aren't magic.

Other Chris: Presidents aren't magic?

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: My new history book be an important.

Chris: One because contrary to popular belief, presidents are not magic.

Chris: They cannot wave a wand and set gas prices at a dollar.

Chris: As much as we don't like that.

Travis: No, I've seen stickers that say otherwise.

Chris: Well, those stickers are made by idiots.

Chris: So I have interacted with some people like that who think that way online, and they are f****** idiots who think they know, but that they're not.

Chris: Oh, my so Dunning Kruger in real person in real life.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: There's others who question that and go, Guys, come on, let's get real.

Chris: And they're like, no, we're right.

Chris: We're like, all right, all right.

Chris: I don't want to get banned from this group because I find these people fascinating, so I just keep my mouth shut.

Chris: But I'm like a lot of you are dumb a**** who think you're not.

Travis: You're embedded with them.

Chris: And that's the problem.

Travis: You're a spy.

Chris: Well, sometimes I did especially early on in the group, I did have some interesting conversations with people who came from different points, points of view about stuff.

Chris: But we'd come to the same conclusion of, yes, we need to do X, Y and Z to benefit America in productive ways.

Chris: Not just talk about s*** and say platitudes at each other, but inevitably balls it.

Chris: But those d*** evil Democrats, they're trafficking children for their satanic worship rituals.

Chris: I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.

Other Chris: You think that are we doing I'm.

Chris: Sorry, I don't know.

Travis: Don't you have your own child dungeon in your house?

Chris: Just like I never get my rotation time for the Jewish space laser.

Other Chris: I never hear about the I still don't have blinds.

Other Chris: You think I have time to put.

Chris: In a child dungeon, right?

Chris: Like I still haven't gotten my turn in the ritual to gain eternal life or whatever it's for.

Chris: Yeah, so I guess we're not high enough up or rich enough to get invited to those parties.

Other Chris: Man, your conspiracies are cool.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I want to run Hollywood.

Chris: Yeah, I know.

Travis: I'd like to make our black exploitation movie.

Travis: If you did cashing, I would just.

Chris: Settle for the yearly gift of gold or whatever we're supposed to be getting from being in this whole thing, which never happens.

Other Chris: I would sign up today.

Travis: I thought you only get it if you win.

Travis: dradle.

Chris: Though we get wonderful notices from our awesome rabbi saying, hey, guys, we know the holidays are coming up.

Chris: If you need some help getting stuff for Hanukkah or whatever, just let me know.

Chris: I have the Rabbis fund to use because we do have some people in my congregation who are very well off or had very prestigious roles.

Chris: And a lot of us are just normal people, middle class folks, some working class folks just trying to get by.

Travis: There's your mistake, being nice to people we don't like.

Chris: That well, that's how the Jewish people.

Travis: Who need help, that's not the Christian way.

Chris: It's not the Christian way.

Chris: It's the Jewish way.

Chris: It's supposed to be the Christian way, but that got wrapped up into politics too much too often early on.

Chris: Yeah, that's how Jews have survived for 2000 years of exile.

Chris: And whatnot is helping each other.

Chris: Who would have thought?

Travis: Crazy.

Chris: What a novel concept.

Chris: You help each other out instead of blaming each other for s***.

Travis: I don't like it.

Chris: I don't trust it.

Chris: Oh, boy.

Chris: So.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Dana and Kevin, right?

Travis: They're both doing this casual labor thing and he starts talking to her while doing inventory.

Travis: Like her being better at counting than most of the very drunk people that.

Chris: Sign up for this work.

Travis: He's like, hey, are you a writer?

Travis: I'm a writer.

Travis: Buzz might be my favorite character who just walks by is like, hey, are you guys going to get together and write some pornography?

Chris: That guy was great.

Travis: Oh, Buzz.

Travis: So, yeah, they decide to spend their lunch breaks together and chat about writing and stuff.

Travis: And like I said, I guess this is where we learn no, I'm sorry.

Travis: Like Other Chris said, this is where we learned that Kevin is actually white.

Travis: He's published three books that no one outside his family has read, relatable.

Travis: And when their temp shifts are no longer aligning, he asks her out to a play.

Travis: So it goes from there when people.

Chris: Could still afford the theater.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And Buzz, I guess, doubles down on his pornography joke, like three or three more times.

Travis: Yeah, it does chocolate and vanilla pornography.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Okay, now you're no longer my favorite character.

Travis: So, yes, we jump back to, I guess, present day.

Travis: At the time, dana is, like, not going to come along to the library.

Travis: I don't want to be disappearing mid car ride.

Travis: And who knows where I'll return.

Travis: That's where I disappear.

Travis: But even before Kevin can leave, she feels dizzy again, and he runs over and throws his arms around her.

Travis: And this time, both of them find themselves in the woods.

Chris: Oh, s***.

Travis: And there's f****** accident prone Rufus, like, laying on the ground with a broken leg.

Other Chris: Yeah, f****** Rufus.

Chris: God.

Chris: Looks like he fell out of a tree.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: What was he doing up in that tree anyway?

Chris: Did he ever say, having fun shenanigans?

Chris: I don't know.

Travis: It's like, hey, Nigel, look what I can do.

Travis: Probably.

Chris: That's probably it.

Other Chris: Hold my beer.

Travis: Fell on my keys.

Travis: Yeah, so, yeah, they decided he fell out of the tree and send his friend Nigel to get his dad to send a wagon to go pick him up.

Travis: We're not carrying you there.

Travis: This is not a good situation.

Chris: Got to keep everything flat, apparently stable.

Travis: And so Nigel is one of the slave children, right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And since Rufus calls him his friend, I think this is where she makes a note.

Travis: Like, I think maybe that whip of his dad's made more of a mark than he expected on him.

Travis: Yeah, I liked that.

Travis: Rufus is interrogating them through his pain.

Travis: Like, who the h*** is this guy?

Travis: Do you belong to him?

Travis: And, yeah, I'll admit being slow on the uptake here, I'm, like, belong to him.

Chris: Right.

Travis: Yeah, they're married.

Travis: No, that's not what he meant.

Travis: No, it's like, no, that's my husband.

Travis: He's like, what the f***?

Chris: You can't get married.

Travis: People can't get married to whites.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And Kevin, for his his part, is pretty p*****, but is held back by her.

Travis: Let's not escalate here.

Other Chris: Let's not turn this into a thing.

Chris: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: She's like, got to pretend here.

Chris: Play a role.

Travis: Kid, what did I tell you about calling me the N word?

Other Chris: I do.

Other Chris: Really quick.

Other Chris: Just want to throw out there.

Other Chris: That is, like, totally a thing if you look at the way white people and black people respond to things.

Other Chris: Right.

Other Chris: In those kinds of situations where it's like, it's part of a white privilege.

Other Chris: Right?

Other Chris: Like being able to be angry, like being in that situation and hearing something you don't like and being able to say something about it.

Other Chris: As opposed to like, I need to keep my mouth shut because I don't want this to get worse.

Travis: Right, well, and also aside from the privilege, like not being used to being offended like that.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I don't get told what to do.

Other Chris: No.

Travis: How dare you?

Travis: How dare you say who I can't marry?

Travis: But yeah, that's a very good point.

Travis: So, yeah, she goes on to say, listen, where we're from, like blacks and whites can marry and we don't like the N word.

Travis: And he's like, well, where is that?

Travis: He's like california.

Chris: Wait, are you Spanish totes maybe?

Travis: So they decide that since Dana and him are probably going to be spending a lot of time together, they should go ahead and just tell him that they're from the future.

Travis: Yeah, we're from the 1976 I like.

Chris: How they used a bicentennial quarter.

Travis: Yeah, I was just going to say they have the cunning use of not yet ancient coins to prove from the future.

Other Chris: It's a Chris Ham move.

Chris: Yeah, that's totally me move.

Other Chris: You need to start in my pocket.

Other Chris: You need to start carrying one just in case.

Chris: I do.

Chris: I need to carry a current year quarter.

Chris: I don't have any yet, but I do have a couple from last year.

Chris: I do like the new close enough women history quarters.

Chris: They're pretty cool.

Chris: Highlight the women quarters.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So he's like telling him to prove it.

Travis: Like, if you're from the future, then tell me everything that's going to happen.

Travis: I mean, we'ren't historians, we don't know everything.

Chris: I tell them everything, but they might f*** them up a little bit.

Chris: Like, yeah, your kid or your grandkid is going to fight in the Civil War.

Chris: Slavery is going to end.

Chris: All this s***'s going to go t*** up for you.

Travis: Don't want to scare the poor boy.

Travis: You just want to prove you're from the future.

Travis: So of course he talks kevin talks about the Missouri Compromise that's going to happen in a few years.

Chris: Yeah, that's something he could check out.

Chris: Be like, yeah.

Chris: Oh, I didn't believe him.

Chris: But yeah, he was right.

Chris: So I guess he is from the future.

Travis: Yeah, but I liked his like, who's pregnant?

Travis: Who's president?

Travis: Where you're from?

Travis: Like Ronald Reagan.

Chris: The actor?

Chris: No, it's Jimmy Carter.

Chris: No.

Travis: Yeah, that's right.

Travis: But no, they Georgia peanut farmer.

Travis: Here's where I would have failed.

Travis: They're like, who's the president now?

Travis: And they're like John Quincy Adams.

Travis: He's like, who's going to be next?

Travis: I'm like, I got him out.

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: You get a bunch of cannon in there and a Polk and some other.

Chris: S***.

Travis: Eventually it'll be Abraham Lincoln.

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: Maybe, like, in the years, it'll be Abraham Lincoln.

Travis: Just wait.

Travis: I'll be right in five decades.

Chris: There's a Pierce.

Chris: At some point, I don't think he did much of anything other than looked good for his portrait.

Travis: William Henry Harrison.

Travis: Don't get invested in him.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: I do know his campaign slogan was tippy canoe and Tyler, too, because I had to remember that for AP history.

Travis: Tippy canoe.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: So then John Tyler will be president because Harrison will kick the bucket.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So like we said, he eventually is convinced when they show him some coins.

Travis: Although he's like, none of these coins actually say 1976.

Chris: It's like, you would have made a one.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Which now Missouri don't demand proof.

Chris: So there you go.

Travis: The show me state.

Chris: If the GOP tells them, they disbelieve it.

Chris: So I'm like, where's the show me?

Chris: Where's the make you prove it to me attitude?

Chris: Missouri.

Chris: But that died out.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Now it's just conspiracy.

Other Chris: I heard another origin for that, which is I went to a mining school.

Chris: Yes.

Other Chris: And way back in the day, there was a whole bunch of lead mining and iron mining and stuff here.

Other Chris: But a bunch of Missouri miners went to Colorado at some point to do mining work out there, and apparently the Coloradoans were not too happy with them.

Other Chris: Basically, they're not good at anything.

Other Chris: You have to show them how to do everything.

Other Chris: So that's why Missouri is the Show Me State, because everyone don't know s***.

Other Chris: You have to show them how to.

Chris: Do it because their minds are easy or something.

Chris: I don't know.

Travis: Sounds right to me.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So they decide that while they're there, they should just go ahead and pretend that Kevin does own her and that he makes sure to stay really close, because who knows when he'll get back to the future without her, right?

Travis: Ruvus's dad, Tom Whelan, shows up with Nigel and the wagon.

Travis: He's like, God d*** it.

Travis: This is going to cost me a fortune.

Travis: Broken.

Chris: Like, geez, thanks for concern for your kid.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Chris: It's going to cost you, what, a whole $5 waylon?

Travis: Well, that's, like, a fortune.

Travis: That's a lot of money.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Maybe ten, maybe $10.

Chris: That's a gold coin back then.

Chris: So there you go.

Travis: Tom and Kevin have a quiet discussion together, but Rufus begs for Dana to not leave him.

Travis: So I pop them up on the wagon, and they all get in together.

Travis: On the ride back to the place, Tom's asking Dana, like, her name and where she's from, and she's, like, trying to remember to not look him in the eye and to visually check in with Kevin before responding to anything.

Travis: But she's like, yeah, I'm Dana from New York, and he gives her a really ugly look and then a sharp glance at Kevin and then ignores them.

Travis: The rest of the time, she's like, what the h***, all I did was answer your question.

Chris: But.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Back at the place, Rufus again begs for Dana not to leave when he's going to be taken upstairs to the bed.

Travis: So she gets to go up with him.

Travis: He's plopped, not unkindly, but very uncaringly into bed.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And then his mother busts in hysterical again and seems maybe to recognize Dana, but after many years doesn't really say anything, starts ordering around, like right away.

Travis: It's like, Get him some water.

Travis: And she's like, all right.

Travis: Like, from where, though?

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Where are you driving water in this place?

Chris: How am I going to know?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Ultimately, she's sent out to the cook house to get some food.

Travis: She meets a young girl who doesn't speak, who's named Carrie, who shows her the way.

Travis: And the cook house, Nigel and his dad, Luke and Sarah, the cook, are apparently hanging out.

Travis: She's like, yeah, Miss Margaret sent me.

Travis: I was like, oh, that b****.

Travis: So Sarah's not a big fan.

Chris: But.

Travis: She gets to eat some corn mash.

Travis: Delicious, delicious corn mash.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Is that like early grits?

Travis: Basically, yeah.

Travis: Where was I?

Chris: Here.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So they asked her where she's from, and they comment in how she talks more white than the white people here.

Chris: Yeah, I'm sure she does.

Travis: Well, my mom was a teacher.

Travis: A black teacher for free.

Chris: Right?

Chris: Exactly.

Travis: It's like, why not Blazing Saddles?

Chris: Yes.

Travis: But they basically tell her that's.

Travis: Why?

Travis: Marsa, Marce.

Travis: Marsa.

Other Chris: Mars.

Travis: Marse.

Chris: Mars.

Travis: Mars.

Travis: Tom doesn't like you because you're educated and from a free state, and you might put the idea of freedom in our heads, as if we were too stupid to think about that ourselves.

Chris: Right.

Travis: They don't know about freedom.

Travis: Don't tell them about it.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Like, sure.

Chris: Otherwise, yeah, we're going to want to spend our whole lives under the thumb of white people.

Chris: It's getting beat for doing s***.

Chris: That's the best.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Oh, wait, we could be free.

Chris: F*** that.

Chris: Ideas.

Travis: Back then, this would be me if I was in this situation, because Dana spent some time thinking about the poor cooking conditions.

Travis: She's like, how are people not just dying from, I don't know, like, Botulism?

Chris: They have stronger guts than we do because they were supposed to s*** as children.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Talking about how medical protocol there was just like, well, here's some whiskey.

Travis: Good luck.

Chris: Yeah, that's kind of it.

Chris: Like, if you got sick, you got sick.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Hope you make it.

Travis: So she hears Rufus screaming from the house, enjoying some modern medicine, and she comforts Carrie, who really doesn't like it.

Travis: She confirms that Carrie is Sarah's daughter, her fourth child, but the first one that was not sold off by Marce.

Travis: Tom kevin calls for her, and she has to remember not to just rush over to him very eagerly, plays it cool.

Travis: But he also confirms that Tom doesn't like her very much because she seems like she can read and it's a dangerous thing for a slave to know, but that he's gotten a job.

Travis: He's going to teach Rufus because he's going to be out of school for a while.

Travis: So we'll just tutor him.

Travis: Apparently he's a bit slow to begin with and well, maybe we can teach him some compassion while we're here.

Other Chris: Do some unfucking.

Travis: Yeah, right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: She's pretty keen on building a good reputation on the plantation just in case she ever has to come back alone.

Chris: Yeah, right.

Travis: And she mentions like she really doesn't want him being there by himself because it won't turn out well for him.

Travis: No, he won't be able to just shake that off.

Travis: Seems insightful to me.

Travis: I don't know.

Travis: Dana moves up into the attic and gets some cooking lessons from Sarah.

Travis: And Miss Margaret really is a b**** to her.

Chris: Like, every chance she gets, every time.

Travis: Every chance she gets.

Travis: I don't care what century it is, I know how to dust lady.

Chris: Like, it's fine.

Travis: Don't have to tell me about that.

Chris: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Kevin is like, really appalled to his credit at all her living conditions.

Travis: And when he finds out that her face has been scalded by Miss Margaret throwing her warm coffee in her face, saying it's too cold.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So he convinces her that she should move into his room.

Travis: They're really good about not noticing these things around here.

Travis: Like, have you noticed all of the kids that look exactly like Master Tom running around in the fields there?

Chris: Right.

Travis: Plus Margaret is basically throwing herself at him.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: He says, I've seen her using her limited reading ability on that Bible of hers.

Travis: I thought that was great.

Travis: She's called back to Rufus again and he asked her to read.

Travis: And remembering that she needs to substitute F's for s's, she reads Robinson Carusa to him.

Chris: It's the long s, but yeah, we are not used to those.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: And it does look like a F.

Chris: Yeah, right.

Chris: It's a long S because apparently we had at some point I picked it up since so in Hebrew you have a concept of final letters.

Chris: It's only for a few, so if it's at the end of a word, it looks different than if it's in the middle of the word.

Chris: Well, the long s and stuff like that kind of was the same, except it was the one before the final one.

Chris: So the last s in like, Congress would be the S for used to, but you'd put a long S for the one before that because it had something to do with, like, showing the sounds or some stuff like that.

Chris: But we just decided we didn't need it, which was fine because we don't really right.

Chris: But that's where that comes from and stuff like that.

Chris: Some of the things that were present in English that maybe at one time, two, had a slightly different sound, took quality to it that then lost that.

Chris: And then we were like, we don't need that funky looking s anymore.

Chris: The long s.

Chris: We could just use two s's instead.

Travis: The Rufus is coming, like, man, you read really good and stuff.

Travis: Not like me.

Travis: Teacher says I'm pretty stupid, but I already read as good as my dad, so that's probably okay.

Chris: There you go, kid.

Chris: Get good at reading.

Chris: You can hold over his head.

Chris: He'll hate you for it.

Travis: She's like, hey, do you like your teacher?

Travis: He's like, no.

Travis: Well, then don't prove him right, okay?

Travis: Like, be better.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: She learns that the family book collection is from Tom's first wife, and when he married Margaret, it came with a condition, that she doesn't like to read.

Travis: He's like, G******, that first wife likes.

Chris: To read too much.

Travis: Just reading and reading and knowing things.

Chris: God, yeah, I don't know s***.

Travis: So she can't she makes sure to check to make sure Alice is okay and still living there.

Travis: But her dad, she finds, was sold after that night of the beating and while leaving his room.

Travis: Tom Acosta is like, the h*** are you doing?

Travis: They're reading.

Travis: You know how I feel about reading, but Master Rufus asked me to.

Travis: How old are you?

Travis: Steve me is like, 26.

Travis: He's like, how can you be so sure?

Travis: Which I guess it was more of a thing back then, not knowing exactly what year you were born in, depending not having birth certificates necessarily.

Travis: But she thought ahead and did the math to know the year she would have had to be born into to be 26 now.

Travis: Yeah, that would have been I was slipped up, like, 1983.

Travis: Oh, s***.

Travis: 1790.

Travis: Whatever.

Travis: It's like, Maybe you should be my kid's teacher.

Travis: Like, I could just buy you from Kevin.

Travis: I don't have to pay him then, right?

Travis: I mean, no, thank you, I guess.

Chris: Like, you sure?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So she tells Kevin, then he's like, well, let's all just be real careful.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Dana mentions how she's one day called along with the other slaves just to watch a whipping, and I, like, noticed that Kevin probably didn't even hear about it.

Chris: Right?

Travis: I didn't know what was going on and didn't hear about it later.

Chris: White people need to worry about that s***.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Comfortably ignorant of that.

Travis: She spends nights in his chambers, but makes sure that she gets up early enough to get water and colds for him so it looks like she's doing chores and stuff.

Travis: And like, three days later, Ms.

Travis: Margaret just busts in is like, the h***?

Travis: Where did you sleep last night?

Travis: With Mr.

Travis: Franklin.

Travis: Slaps her in the face like, this is a Christian house.

Travis: You go back to the attic.

Chris: Is it like you guys terrorize other humans?

Chris: So I don't think it's a very Christian house.

Travis: She just kind of just kind of stares her down and goes back to sweeping.

Travis: Yeah, I've got another excerpt I want to read here because I like this description of Miss Margaret.

Travis: Let's see.

Travis: They're talking about how it was a very hot day, mugging and uncomfortable.

Travis: No one else was moving very fast except a wavelength flies.

Travis: But Margaret whalen still rushed everywhere.

Travis: She had little or nothing to do.

Travis: Slaves, kept her house clean, did much of her sewing, all her cooking and washing.

Travis: Carrie even helped put her clothes on and take them off.

Travis: So Margaret supervised, ordered people to do work they were already doing, criticized their slowness and laziness, even when they were quick and industrious and in general, made trouble.

Travis: Whelan had married a poor, uneducated, nervous, startlingly pretty young woman who was determined to be the kind of person she thought of as a lady.

Travis: That meant she didn't do menial work or any work at all, apparently.

Travis: But I had no one to compare her to except guests, who seemed at least to be calmer.

Travis: I think that paints a great picture, right?

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Micromanaging everybody, even though they're already doing stuff just fine and she has nothing to add.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I forget exactly where, but somewhere around here, master Whelan finds her reading one of his books.

Travis: He's like, hey, listen, read to my kid, but don't read on your own time.

Travis: Just don't.

Travis: Later, when she's in the cook house with Sarah, she's like, I had to speak on your behalf today to Mr.

Travis: Whelan, like, assuring him that Dana was good at learning things, even though she didn't know how to do a lot of stuff.

Travis: He's like, yeah, I might buy her.

Travis: He's like, Well, Mr.

Travis: Franklin wouldn't let him.

Travis: He's like, sure, Cesara.

Travis: And by the way, you guys aren't as sly as you think you are.

Travis: That's probably why Margaret hates you so much.

Travis: Like, you have something she wants.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Also confirms it was Margaret's idea to sell her kids so that she could buy a bunch of new furniture that she didn't need.

Chris: B****.

Travis: What a terrible person.

Chris: That's a bitchy move really is.

Chris: How do you do furniture?

Chris: Sell these people.

Travis: Just sell them.

Chris: Sell these children.

Travis: Three humans.

Travis: I like the note that she starts to employ a strategy that Luke told her.

Travis: He's like, listen, don't argue with the white people.

Travis: Just say yes at the time and then do whatever you were going to do anyway.

Travis: Usually they're fine.

Chris: Yeah, usually it works just fine.

Travis: They usually forget to punish you later.

Travis: It's fine.

Travis: She's taken aback when Nigel asked her to teach him how to read, and mostly because she's like, why didn't I think of that on my own?

Travis: I should have been doing that to begin with.

Travis: So she immediately steals a book, like, that day and starts teaching him.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And she talks here about how she's disturbed, how easily they're getting along in the 18 hundreds.

Travis: Talks about how she's protected by the fact that they're just playing a role.

Travis: Like, they're not from here.

Travis: They're from the future.

Travis: So they're going to get out of here eventually.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: They're not part of it, but.

Chris: Comes.

Travis: More real to her.

Travis: One day she's walking with Kevin in the woods and they notice a group of kids playing pretend like play acting a slave auction and quarreling over their sales prices.

Other Chris: Yes.

Travis: Which was sad, but a little funny.

Other Chris: I mean, it's like anyone who's been around kids for any amount of time knows that this s*** absolutely happened.

Chris: Right?

Other Chris: I don't know at what age they really stopped doing that, I guess.

Other Chris: But it's like, yeah, we saw some older people doing this s***.

Travis: Right.

Other Chris: Or like, this is something that I experienced recently in my life, and I'm going to reenact it in play form, right?

Travis: Helps them process it and make sense of it.

Chris: They like to just kind of play act about the world around them.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: The kid being like, well, but the other person went for $500.

Travis: I wouldn't get 300.

Travis: I get 500.

Travis: Yeah, it's sad and just a little funny.

Travis: Just the fact that they were quarreling over the price point.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Right.

Travis: And Kevin's just like, well, yeah, that's their future.

Travis: Like what you going to do?

Travis: And this is where he starts talking about yeah.

Travis: If you think about it, it's pretty non horrific.

Travis: This plantation.

Travis: Like what I learned in school.

Travis: I expect there to be beatings every day.

Travis: And again, she's like, yeah, for you being bored in the house, it's just fine.

Chris: Yeah, you don't have to practically are out here.

Travis: You don't have to go to whippings just to see people get whipped.

Travis: Or that your children can be sold away at any time because they need new furniture, right?

Travis: Yeah.

Chris: He's like, oh, yeah, I guess not.

Travis: She tells him that she's teaching Nigel how to read.

Travis: And he's like, oh, well, you think he'll try to forge papers and head north.

Travis: And like, well, at least he'd be able to.

Travis: And he's like, yeah, well, I see what Whalen was right to be afraid about educated slaves.

Travis: I'm like, jesus, dude.

Chris: No, come on.

Travis: Wrong thing.

Chris: We should help all of them do that.

Travis: Wrong thing to say.

Chris: Kevin.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So there's another scene where Dana's reading to Rufus while his mom's in there doting on him and keeps interrupting her and then shouting at her that she stopped reading until Rufus gets fed up and yells at her.

Travis: It's like, god, mom, you're such a b****.

Chris: Get out.

Chris: God, yeah.

Travis: Jesus, mom.

Chris: I hate you.

Travis: Get some pizza rolls or something.

Chris: God.

Chris: Right?

Travis: One wants you here.

Other Chris: It's a small thing.

Other Chris: It's just kind of a throwaway thing.

Other Chris: But the first thing he says afterwards, she's like, you always treat your mom that way?

Other Chris: And he's like, well, yeah, my dad does it too, because that's how you get her to go away.

Other Chris: But it ties into the rest of all of the s***, which is that all of this is learned behavior, like, the way that he treats everyone is something that he's learned from his father.

Chris: We like to say.

Chris: And it is true to be like, nobody's born hating other people.

Chris: They have to be taught to.

Travis: Right.

Other Chris: You really do get a sense, I guess, of the push and pull of the different forces in his mind right.

Other Chris: Where he's like, yeah, I'm friends with Alice, and yeah, I like Nigel and everything, but also he's got, like yeah, like the like the the viewpoint of his father, I guess, is also, like, taking a place in his mind.

Other Chris: And it's going to be a question.

Chris: Of.

Other Chris: Which direction is he going to go?

Travis: Right.

Chris: Because even with being friends with all these black kids and stuff, he really likes them.

Chris: In the end, he's going to be a white adult who inherits a plantation.

Travis: Exactly.

Chris: The business sense of all that is going to take over, and he's going to be like, yeah, I like him, but this is the world I'm in.

Travis: Right.

Chris: Kind of f*** them over if I have to.

Travis: Well, not even necessarily viewing it as that's just what you need to do.

Chris: Yeah, exactly.

Travis: Later on, she finds Nigel for his reading lesson, and he's teaching Carrie a few things.

Travis: And although she admits to herself that she's now going to be in danger with Sarah as well as Mr.

Travis: Whelan, she asks Carrie if she wants to learn to read too, and she agrees.

Travis: And she also goes and steals a book, like, right away, one that's, like, too advanced for her.

Travis: She's like, we'll start with the primer, I guess.

Travis: He mentions we'll have to find somewhere else for her.

Travis: Nigel has this place because Sarah said no one ever comes in here.

Travis: But anyway, pop quiz, spelling test.

Travis: Nigel gets all his spelling words right, and she even notes, like, he's learning much more quickly than Rufus's, maybe because he wants to.

Travis: I don't know.

Chris: Maybe well, who's not?

Chris: Like, maybe Rufus is dyslexic or something too.

Chris: We don't know.

Chris: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: She does mention he might not be able to see too good and they would never know.

Chris: Yeah, exactly.

Travis: Then as she's throwing away his test paper in the fire, there stands Mr.

Travis: Whelan, eyes on the book in her hand.

Travis: He's like, you're stealing and you're reading.

Travis: Drags her out and sets the whip to her, and it hurts so bad that she can't even crawl away.

Travis: And she calls for Kevin and starts feeling that feeling coming on.

Travis: Sees him running back toward her and passes out.

Travis: And the end of our section.

Other Chris: Oh, my God.

Chris: Oh, no.

Chris: What's going to happen?

Travis: What's going to happen?

Travis: One of us knows what's going to happen.

Travis: And I'll admit I read ahead a little bit to find out if he went back with her or not.

Chris: I did a little bit, too.

Travis: And no, he didn't.

Travis: So he's trapped, we assume.

Chris: But I feel like he was just about to get to her when she disappeared.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So I only checked to see if she talked about him being there with him.

Travis: I didn't read any other stuff.

Chris: Right.

Travis: Chris Ham what's going to happen, man?

Travis: Is he going to have to stay on the plantation for like years and years?

Chris: Who knows?

Travis: California?

Chris: I don't think he would because he'd be unhappy there.

Chris: I think he'd like, finish out his teaching the kid while he's recovering and then leave.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: I don't know if going out to California be a good idea at this time.

Chris: It'd be really hard to get there.

Chris: He couldn't cross territory because you have to go across Mexican territory, Spanish territory, and I don't know if they would let him or not.

Travis: Is it even time for the Oregon Trail?

Chris: Could he even no, that's the 1840s.

Travis: Yeah, it's not even time for that yet.

Chris: I think Mexico is still New Spain.

Chris: If it's still 1815.

Chris: They don't get their independence until like 1821.

Chris: And so they weren't encouraging Americans yet.

Chris: The Mexican government did for Texas and some of those territories up there because they wanted to fill in population.

Chris: But we saw how well that worked out in their favor.

Chris: There was importing a bunch of white Protestant slave owners.

Chris: Yeah, it'd be really tough to get there because you'd have to go to a port, find someone who trades with New Spain, and then sail all the way down around South America and all the way up the other side to get to California.

Chris: And he's not going to walk it either because no one's doing that yet.

Other Chris: They mentioned somebody did that, right?

Other Chris: Rufus said, like somebody in his family or something, like took a boat to California and yeah, that's how they would have gone around the way to do it.

Travis: America long way around.

Chris: So he's probably going to go after that contract, maybe up north or something.

Chris: Yeah, it suit his ideas a little better.

Chris: And he could kind of disappear a little more easily up there.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: I don't even know how big the abolitionist movement was yet either.

Travis: Do you think at least part of this next part is going to be her going back and trying to find him?

Travis: So she can bring him back, of course, or is he just going to be hanging out?

Chris: Of course she's going to try and find him.

Travis: I set up shop.

Travis: Me and Tom are friends.

Other Chris: He's got his own plantation.

Chris: God, I hope not.

Chris: He got a little too comfortable there.

Chris: I would hope that would kind of scare him.

Chris: And he'd be like, oh, f***, look how easy I could fall into this s***.

Chris: But be like, no, I'm the good one.

Chris: I don't beat my slaves every day.

Travis: Not every day.

Travis: I'm not sure what I can expect from the rest of it, except me neither.

Travis: That part.

Travis: And eventually they'll get back together so she can lose an arm in the wall.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: And we'll still have to figure out how this all ties into her ancestry, too, if anything, other than her just making sure that nobody dies.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Because who knows?

Chris: There could be more to it than that.

Travis: We'll find out that and I'm expecting something unspeakably terrible to happen that I don't expect yet.

Chris: Yeah, that seems like a fair I.

Travis: Don'T know what it is, but I know I'm not going to like it.

Other Chris: Well, this story I mean, think about how many unspeakably terrible things have already happened.

Travis: We're building up to something.

Other Chris: And you still have like two thirds.

Chris: Of the book to get through, right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So this is apparently where the show ends off, though.

Travis: So I guess that's going to be we just spoiled.

Travis: Oh, really, Cliffhanger?

Travis: At the end of the season.

Other Chris: Oh, f***.

Chris: Well, I hope they make more of it depending on if we like it or not because I haven't heard anything about it on the Internet.

Other Chris: I'm very disappointed that I feel like nobody watched.

Other Chris: I heard it was really good and then I heard nothing else about it.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: No one has talked about it.

Chris: There's not anything on my YouTube things that pop up about that stuff.

Chris: Like nothing.

Chris: It's gone completely under radars.

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: And I don't like that because I want them to make more stuff from all of her works.

Travis: Yes, please.

Chris: But I'm afraid if this doesn't work out, that they won't.

Chris: But maybe it's just what the timing, what they picked, and like, if you make something from one of the other series, people will go, oh, this is really cool too, and then find this kindred adaptation.

Travis: Well, we'll have to start the hashtag campaign when we get to it.

Chris: Yes.

Travis: Our three Twitter followers will really spread.

Other Chris: It and some people from Zambia.

Travis: Hey, first of all, we won't know if Twitter will still be a thing by then, but get on it, guys.

Chris: I heard they just sold the giant bird for like $100,000 or something that they need money for from the headquarters.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: So it sounds like Elon Musk buying Twitter is the end of Twitter.

Travis: End of it.

Other Chris: He's just breaking it down and selling it off.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: Is he secretly a hero?

Chris: I don't know.

Chris: I don't know what's up with him.

Travis: No, he is not.

Chris: That's my inclination right now.

Chris: I'm like he's kind of just becoming like a crazy dude.

Other Chris: He just bought Twitter to purposefully dismantle it.

Travis: No, he's not.

Other Chris: Okay.

Chris: No, he did it so he could bring back people who shouldn't have such a public voice that easily.

Chris: So I'm like, if you want to say bad s***, you should have to go stand in the town square and spew it and get tomatoes thrown at you type of deal.

Chris: So I'm like, I'm not going to stop you from saying it, but you should have repercussions for it.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Or write a letter to your editor that they can they go, we're not printing this.

Chris: That's how you engage in the public square.

Chris: Yes, twitter is free to do what it wants, to restrict people or not.

Chris: I prefer that Elon Musk was not in charge of it.

Travis: Don't do Twitter.

Chris: Let them all go to Trump's social network.

Chris: He's trying to get off the ground.

Chris: Then we know where to find him.

Travis: Yeah, truth social.

Travis: Yeah, don't do that either.

Chris: Well, no, they can, because no one pays attention to it.

Chris: They'll just be talking to each other, and then whenever we need to know what they're saying, we can just go.

Travis: Look, just don't do social media.

Travis: It was a mistake.

Chris: That's the general consensus.

Chris: I'm coming to social media was a mistake.

Chris: Let's not do it anymore.

Chris: We can find other way.

Chris: Like, we can keep the facets of it.

Chris: We like using what became slack and some of the work feed stuff.

Chris: Adapt that a bit for easy communication.

Chris: But we don't need the rest of it.

Chris: It's over.

Chris: Please, let's stop.

Chris: We're just tearing our society apart from it.

Chris: Let's call it wrap up.

Chris: We're done with it.

Chris: This was a great experiment.

Chris: We're done.

Other Chris: But how will people advertise their only fans?

Travis: Yeah, that's true.

Chris: Instagram.

Travis: I want to know how tell you how I know this, but you can't just search only fans for people.

Chris: We'll keep one.

Travis: You have to know their name.

Chris: They can put a picture on Instagram like I've seen, and that'll be fine.

Chris: We'll keep one social media post on Reddit.

Other Chris: Like instagram can stay.

Chris: Keep the one that's usually pictures.

Chris: I like that one.

Travis: Oh, man.

Travis: Well, homework for next time is read the rest of the book.

Chris: Okay.

Travis: Easy peasy.

Chris: Nice.

Travis: So do you guys have anything else that's good?

Chris: No, I tried to focus on reading this book in my free times.

Travis: That's a good week.

Chris: So I didn't really do much else other than our fun trip stuff yesterday.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: And getting my phone figured out this week, too.

Chris: Nice.

Chris: Hey, and being upset that I couldn't just pop in my current cheapy phone SIM card.

Chris: But they're like, no, that can sometimes f*** it up.

Chris: So pay a dollar, get a new SIM card kit, and then you can transfer service from one to the other.

Chris: I'm like that.

Chris: Makes sense.

Other Chris: All good.

Travis: Nice.

Chris: So I'm like I would rather wait.

Chris: I was just concerned because due to high demand, we might be late getting this stuff shipped out.

Chris: I'm like, oh, it could be, like, weeks.

Chris: But then it was, like, two days later.

Chris: Like, hey, shipping label, it's coming to you.

Chris: I'm like.

Chris: Okay.

Travis: Nice.

Chris: So I pay some bills.

Chris: Financial freedom.

Chris: Hey, that's all.

Chris: Using some of that stuff I got from my cousin to pay off my credit cards and whatnot.

Chris: So I don't have to worry about that stuff anymore.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Other Chris, do you have anything else that's.

Travis: Good.

Other Chris: So I just saw Megan.

Other Chris: Yes.

Travis: M threegan.

Other Chris: M threegan, as they say on that other podcast.

Travis: I heard good things.

Other Chris: It was pretty good.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: It was like really funny and kind of like satirical and just a little bit like f****** silly.

Other Chris: I don't know.

Other Chris: It was great.

Other Chris: It was great.

Travis: Nice.

Other Chris: Cool.

Other Chris: I can recommend it.

Other Chris: Go watch it.

Other Chris: You'll laugh, you'll be entertained.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Nice.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: I wasn't too sure from the trailer, but I've heard enough things.

Travis: I'll probably go see it eventually, but very silly.

Other Chris: I think the thing that you don't get from the trailer is that it is purposeful.

Other Chris: You watch the trailer and you're like, oh, this looks dumb, or something, but it's like if you watch the movie, then you're like, oh, they, they made this like, perfectly aware that it's completely dumb.

Chris: Right.

Other Chris: And they, they like, went all in on it and it's it really works.

Other Chris: It's good.

Travis: Nice.

Chris: Well, that's good.

Travis: Nice.

Travis: Just as an aside, would you recommend it for like a twelve year old kid?

Travis: Because one of our friends took their twelve year old kid to see it.

Other Chris: I mean, it depends on the twelve year old, I guess.

Other Chris: Yeah, I don't think there was anything like super shocking or gory or anything in it.

Other Chris: I would say, like, a lot of the major violence happens off screen.

Other Chris: Got you.

Chris: Okay.

Other Chris: But yeah, I don't know what they would get out of it as a twelve year old, though.

Other Chris: I don't know if the humor would land for them because it's kind of.

Chris: Like yeah.

Other Chris: Like I said, it's got kind of a satirical streak, like RoboCop or something in that vein, like Paul Beerhoven, a Starship Troopers, if you will, something like that.

Other Chris: It's making some comment on society.

Other Chris: Right.

Other Chris: And all of the humor and all of the violence and stuff is kind of toward that end.

Chris: Got you.

Other Chris: And so, yeah, I think a twelve year old could watch it and be like, oh, creepy doll, that's pretty funny.

Other Chris: Or like, oh, she did a thing.

Other Chris: And that was pretty cool.

Other Chris: But the main thrust of it, I guess I don't know what twelve year.

Travis: Old would be down for it.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Got you.

Travis: All right, fair play.

Chris: Cool.

Travis: So, from my side, I listened to a couple of audiobooks in the last couple of weeks while I was reading this.

Travis: One of them I was going to mention is called I'm Glad my Mom Died.

Chris: Oh, yeah?

Chris: By Jeanette McCurdy.

Travis: Jeanette McCurdy.

Other Chris: I've seen that on the shelf.

Chris: Me too.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And that's kind of why I picked it up, because A, I had credits that were expiring, and B, I've seen it posted a lot of places as like, one of the best books of last year.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Jeanette McCurdy is, like, unknown to me because I never watched icarly.

Travis: That was after my time.

Travis: But I got the audiobook version and it was pretty good.

Chris: Cool.

Travis: She also is kind of economical about her stories and I guess you would say, very frank about them.

Travis: Doesn't spend a lot of time being like, oh, Woe was me.

Travis: My mom was, like, sociopath and crazy and abusive psychologically and basically drove me into bulimia and anorexia or Woe was me.

Travis: Like, I worked on this show where the creator was what he calls she calls him the creator wasn't allowed to be on set with any of the child actors after a while after certain accusations came out.

Other Chris: Wow.

Travis: But, yeah, it's just a bunch of short, to the point stories about what she went through.

Travis: And usually I get annoyed when people who aren't even 40 are like, here's my memoir.

Travis: My life is complete, and I've learned everything I can learn.

Travis: But she even was talking about how it's kind of like, yeah, I'm working on it now.

Chris: Yeah, this is the first one she'll do, maybe.

Chris: And then further down the road, you do a different one like Will Wheaton has done, right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And also she read it very quickly, which I appreciated.

Travis: I'm like, Did I set the speed up again on this?

Travis: But no, that's just how fast she read it.

Chris: So I'm like, okay, let's go.

Travis: I'm not going to dwell on this.

Travis: Let's just go through it.

Chris: Right?

Travis: I like that one I'm listening to now.

Travis: I'm about three quarters of the way through is called Tracers in the Dark by Andy Greenberg.

Travis: And basically it is talking about bitcoin and cryptocurrency and people who have to figure out how to decode the blockchain to help do forensics for crimes and stuff.

Other Chris: Okay.

Travis: And so it's a bunch of different stories.

Travis: And I'll admit I get lost with who is who in this thing, but basically talking like, the the main first section was talking about the Silk Road and how the Dread Pirate Roberts who ran that was basically convinced he was invincible because bitcoin was anonymized and so no one could ever track anything.

Travis: But basically the point being that, yeah, since there's, like, a very public record of every Bitcoin transaction ever, you can figure it out.

Travis: Like they talked about this postgrad student who was a cryptologist going through and just basically going, okay, well, because the way money moves from wallet to wallet and since we know big dollar transactions are probably this or that she very easily was like, yeah, this is a Silk Road transaction.

Travis: And this one is two and this one is two.

Travis: And this is this.

Travis: And just the stories of her buying very specific things off of there so she could track her own bitcoin back and be like, Yep, this proves it.

Travis: All that stuff is over my head, but I'm at least aware enough to be like, yeah, you idiot.

Travis: You stupid, stupid guy.

Other Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: I don't know why anyone ever thought that that was, like, my immediate first reaction to it.

Other Chris: Same thing with the onion network and various other things that people claim to be like, oh, this is anonymizing this will hide your activity somehow.

Other Chris: I'm like, Right, no, it's all there.

Other Chris: If you know how to look for it, it's staring at you in the face.

Chris: Right?

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: It's more secretive than if you just said, hey, I'm Chris and I'm buying these drugs.

Chris: Yeah.

Other Chris: Which I do now, though.

Travis: Yeah, you just do it out in the open.

Other Chris: I just go to the store, right?

Other Chris: I'm like, hey, I would like to buy some drugs.

Other Chris: And they're like, Cool, we will sell you some.

Travis: You don't even have to get a bitcoin for it.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: So just random things from there that I find really amusing is a them talking about how much constantly talking about how much people would be worth if they hadn't used their, like, 10,000 bitcoins to buy a pizza back in the day.

Chris: Yeah, that first bitcoin purchase.

Travis: Or they talked about see if I can remember what this is.

Travis: Like the network that replaced Silk Road when it got taken down.

Travis: Is it Pirate Bay?

Travis: No, that's a slightly different thing.

Travis: Something Bay.

Travis: Anyway, it was supposed to be the bigger, better version of the Silk Road and like super encrypted.

Travis: And no one knew anything about the guy except someone tipped them off that when they first registered for it, they got an email from the server that used the guy's actual email address.

Travis: And his email address was something like Andy 91 at Hotmail.

Travis: And so they searched Google for Andy 91 and found his forum posts from back in the day talking about all the stuff he was going to do and using the same name.

Travis: He started the thing with like, oh, it's this guy who's in Thailand.

Travis: And he's like, they'll never get me in Thailand.

Travis: Not knowing that one of the biggest offshore DEA offices is in Thailand also.

Travis: So they got him almost right away.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: The main point being, like, yeah, this would help you do criminal stuff if you weren't an idiot.

Other Chris: But I mean, also, you don't need it to do criminal stuff if you're not an idiot.

Travis: Right.

Other Chris: You can just do crime.

Other Chris: Like, you don't need crypto, no cash.

Travis: It's a safe transaction.

Travis: No one will find you ever.

Other Chris: Oh, my God.

Chris: No one will find you if you have cash either.

Travis: So, yeah, I've got a little bit to go on that still, but it's been very interesting.

Chris: Sounds like it.

Travis: And again, it makes me feel real smart, even though I would never come up with this s***, right.

Travis: I can rejoice in criminals being stupid.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: Good fun sometimes.

Travis: Good times.

Travis: All right, chris, I was supposed to remind you about a thing.

Chris: Yeah, you were going to say something about stuff.

Chris: Parents.

Other Chris: Oh, yeah.

Other Chris: So when I was watching Megan, I can't remember where in the conversation I pulled this from, but I wanted to bring it up after I talked about Megan.

Travis: Okay?

Other Chris: But there was a specific scene in the movie where the kid is freaking out because they took Megan away from her.

Other Chris: She's throwing a real f****** fit, and she just smacks Alison Williams character across the face.

Travis: Oh, gee.

Other Chris: And at that moment, like I said, the whole theater was full of kids that were just kind of left there by their parents, I guess.

Other Chris: But in that exact moment, one other person in the theater was like, oh, h*** no.

Other Chris: She's about to get f****** slapped.

Other Chris: We're not taking that s***, right?

Travis: Jesus.

Other Chris: She did not just do that.

Chris: Yeah.

Chris: What just happened?

Travis: No, ma'am.

Chris: Right?

Travis: No f****** kids, right?

Travis: All right.

Travis: Anything else we need to say?

Other Chris: No.

Travis: All right, stop.

Travis: Exactly two hour mark.

Travis: Okay, that was our session for today.

Travis: Homework for next time is to read the rest of the book, which is a bigger chunk of pages than this.

Travis: One, but I felt they moved quicker.

Travis: I don't know.

Travis: Since we're still running a bit long, a quick on second thoughts for you today.

Travis: At the time that I recommended Tracers in the Dark, I was only about two thirds of the way through that book.

Travis: And while I do still recommend it, if I had finished it at that point, I would have called out that the last section is discussing a dark web child pornography ring, which does ultimately get taken down and is still an interesting topic in the context of digital security.

Travis: It's just anything with that kind of content is also super dark, even if they don't get into too many details.

Travis: So, yeah, just a heads up if.

Travis: You are planning on checking that book.

Travis: Out.

Travis: Today'S episode was summoned back in time via an unconscious call from the ancestors of Chris.

Travis: Chris Hamm, chris Other, chris Jacobson.

Travis: It was edited by me, Travis Rowe, and was sponsored by no one in particular.

Travis: Until next time, keep f****** reading.

Chris: Um.

Travis: It was a bad day.

Other Chris: Do your kids know how much you put up with for that?

Other Chris: Like, do they do they know that you think that other soccer parents are awful and they hate being around them?

Travis: Yeah, Levi knows that.

Travis: In fact, that's part of the reason why he doesn't do soccer anymore.

Chris: He sacrificed for you.

Travis: No, he started to agree with me because when I started playing outdoor soccer, he could hear them.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: Jesus, guys, it's just a game.

Chris: I'm here to have fun.

Chris: Like, what the f***?

Chris: Parents.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: He would play goalie a lot, and so he'd hear a lot of comments about people being very happy when he made a mistake.

Travis: He's like, I don't need this s***.

Other Chris: Right?

Chris: He doesn't.

Travis: I tried my best.

Travis: Like, you don't need to or yell at me or whatever.

Chris: That's all the parents should be doing.

Chris: Good job.

Chris: Good try.

Travis: Yeah, that's it.

Chris: That's the parents role.

Chris: You're not a coach.

Chris: Otherwise you'd be doing it.

Travis: Exactly.

Travis: Anyway, I think he agrees with me.

Travis: He's like, Parents need to get over this s***.

Chris: Yeah, they do.

Other Chris: It's a little early in their career for this kind of feel.

Chris: Like when we were kids, only half the parents would show up anyways.

Chris: Yeah.

Travis: And it was better.

Chris: It was.

Chris: It was better.

Travis: Then you could take a swing at a kid and the ref be like, I didn't see anything.